17 replies to this topic

[Paigan]

With all the recent LRM hating threads I feel compelled to post my thoughts on the matter that are a little more ... balanced, I would say.

Yes, noobs tend to use LRMS because of easy lock-on etc.
Yes, LRM boats are usually noobs or lazy/cowardy people.
Yes, firing thousands of missiles into a mountain and not absorbing any damage is moreless a useless player.

BUT although I stopped playing LRM boats forthose reasons myself for some time now, I still see very viable situations for LRMs:

1.)
As a SECONDARY weapon systems.
For example I have a WHK with 4xERLL 3xLRM5 (please don't flame, just an example. And yes, ERLL are good. Still love my Wubhawk, though).
The main weapons are clearly the ERLL. Say "80%". But it's still nice to have a little "LRM Addon" for certain situations. E.g. I know the terrain is clear but there is a hill blocking the line of fire. It's very helpful to fire 1-2 salvos at the target while I get in position.
Or just to keep the enemy in cover with the constant "incoming missiles" message. Really works.

That's 5 tons, 5 slots for me.
Theoretically even 1xLRM-5 is enough for that job. That's 2 slots, 1.5 tons (with 18 salvos of ammo). No one can tell me that this isn't worth the extra (SECONDARY) effect.
(sorry, only considering clan LRMs as IS LRMs are just a joke)


2.)
Even LRM-boats can be viable IF the the terrain is right (which it rarely is. Defending Boreal Vault is such a case. Hardly any LRM cover. Lock them and they're dead) and IF they are properly included in the team (proper spotting, locking, ECM coverage, etc.).
I have seen tremendous and unexpected rofl stomping thanks to (Clan) LRMs in both normal games and CW games.


The only problem with that is: it's very rare and complicated to achieve. Almost impossible (or a huge gamble) in PUG teams.
I think this is the reason why LRM boats are in general considered to be useless. It's usually too complicated and terrain-dependant to do it right.

However that still does not make them bad or a noob weapon per se.
It's just that naive people tend to misuse them and disservice the team with it.

Edited by Paigan, 30 May 2015 - 12:28 AM.

[Gagis]

It can work if your LRM boat is a Trebuchet-7M or Huncback-4J.

On other mechs, not so much.

[El Bandito]

Gagis, on 30 May 2015 - 12:34 AM, said:

It can work if your LRM boat is a Trebuchet-7M or Huncback-4J.

On other mechs, not so much.

If LRM only works on overly-quirked mechs, then the weapon itself needs help. Just like AWS-8Q and PPCs.

Edited by El Bandito, 30 May 2015 - 12:46 AM.

[Gagis]

El Bandito, on 30 May 2015 - 12:45 AM, said:

If LRM only works on overly-quirked mechs, then the weapon itself needs help. Just like AWS-8Q and PPCs.

Could be, though at least half of the trick is in both Trebuchet and Huncback being fast and manouverable mediums, which is important for LRM's.

[Prokust]

you dont need an overquirked chassis to play lrms in a viable way. of course its a great advantage if you can take a tbt or a hbk 4j out for a spin (hell i love that hunchie). but there are more important things to take care of:

1)back up weapons....no need to explain i think. otherwise (especially is lrm mechs) you are truly f.... up if your enemy is under 180 m.

2) Map awareness....where is my target, is it in cover? take a look at your lrms flight...any ams in the path? How many of your bees come to impact on enemy mechs?

3) situational awareness....where is your team? keep moving with it! dont sit back 800 m away and lob your volleys into a mountains flank. i prefer being in the main grp of the team, 300-400 m from the frontline. My bees have a short flightpath, i can see if there is enemy ams etc...i can counter enemy ecm with bap and tag, have an overview about the enemy team (wich mechs, how much of them....)

4) focus fire with your teammates...no need to explain i think.

5)bring your own tag, bap, uav....in the end....i prefer to drop a ton of ammo and take a tag with me instead of stuffing as much ammo as i can into my mech...pick your shots wisely. dont fire any lock you can get. in the worst case, you waste ammo or/and give away your position....

thats the way i play them, and i do it with great success, with hunchies and tbr´s mostly. and there is nothing greater than playing with friends, both riding a tbr-d packed with clrm 60, working togehter and lobbing clrm 120 onto enemies. yes its not competitive, yes there are weapons that are more effective. but its a sh..load of fun. and thats the reason for me to play the game. (and no i dont feel like i am wasting a slot for a heavy mech)

2 cents and so on....

Edited by Prokust, 30 May 2015 - 12:59 AM.

[El Bandito]

Gagis, on 30 May 2015 - 12:51 AM, said:

Could be, though at least half of the trick is in both Trebuchet and Huncback being fast and manouverable mediums, which is important for LRM's.

That simply reveals another weakness of LRMs. I do not know any other major weapon that requires you to be a fast Medium in order to be successful. Not Gauss, not lasers, not SRMs, not ACs, and not even PPCs.

Maybe SSRMs? heh.

Prokust, on 30 May 2015 - 12:58 AM, said:

5)bring your own tag, bap, uav....in the end....i prefer to drop a ton of ammo and take a tag with me instead of stuffing as much ammo as i can into my mech...pick your shots wisely. dont fire any lock you can get. in the worst case, you waste ammo or/and give away your position....

That's a lot of tools, just to make a single weapon system work. Probably why most people prefer direct fire weapons instead. They do not need TAG, BAP, ATD module, and UAV to put 30 damage in one spot.

Prokust, on 30 May 2015 - 12:58 AM, said:

thats the way i play them, and i do it with great success, with hunchies and tbr´s mostly. and there is nothing greater than playing with friends, both riding a tbr-d packed with clrm 60, working togehter and lobbing clrm 120 onto enemies. yes its not competitive, yes there are weapons that are more effective. but its a sh..load of fun. and thats the reason for me to play the game. (and no i dont feel like i am wasting a slot for a heavy mech)

2 cents and so on....

So for you, it is basically just a "fun" weapon, with other weapons being more competitive that it.

Edited by El Bandito, 30 May 2015 - 01:13 AM.

[9thDeathscream]

Lrms do tend to splash damage all over, but that 10 points off less armor somewhere on that enemy mech might be the difference between him killing of one of your friendly mechs or him getting killed.

An active aggressive Lrm at 250 - 300m boat can make a big difference.

A passive one sitting back at 800 meters waste of a slot.

The mech doesn't need quirks to be good, just needs a good pilot

Edited by Akulla1980, 30 May 2015 - 01:08 AM.

[Kyynele]

Paigan, on 30 May 2015 - 12:26 AM, said:

The only problem with that is: it's very rare and complicated to achieve. Almost impossible (or a huge gamble) in PUG teams.
I think this is the reason why LRM boats are in general considered to be useless. It's usually too complicated and terrain-dependant to do it right.

However that still does not make them bad or a noob weapon per se.
It's just that naive people tend to misuse them and disservice the team with it.

Yeah.

I like optimistic people. But bringing along a weapon system that might work great in specific circumstances, instead of bringing a weapon system that will work reliably in any situation, that's a gamble that affects your whole team.

If you're taking that gamble, you should be prepared that some people may be a bit disappointed with your decision. Of course, lashing out at your team mates is never a cool thing to do, no matter what.

[Prokust]

El Bandito, on 30 May 2015 - 01:04 AM, said:

So for you, it is basically just a "fun" weapon, with other weapons being more competitive that it.

jep...but i dont think they are totally useless like some other people do. on the other hand they are far from being "viable" but you can adjust your playstyle to use them in an effective way

Edited by Prokust, 30 May 2015 - 01:15 AM.

[9thDeathscream]

What it comes down its your game, play it the way you want. Some matches a Lrm will wreck havok, others it might not. Either way just enjoy the game. What others say is really of no consequence. Your life, do it your way!!

Sometimes you wanna boat Lrms, thats cool!
Sometimes you wanna Dual Gauss, no problems!
Other times you wanna get out the ole AC40 job, why not?
Then you might go do some laser spam, who cares!


There is really no right or wrong way to play. Just try to be effective with the weapons you take.

This applies to Solo PUG land.

Running CW is a different ball game. Then its best to do what your unit suggests!

[9thDeathscream]

I played a match a couple of hours ago in my Warhawk B. Terra Therma was the map.

At the start i urged the team to rush the center. I was first in closely followed by the rest.
As my team spread around the ringed walkway, I moved down onto the center platform.

The enemy team proceeded to march up the opposite ramp. Every time one came into my los i locked it up and hammered it with my 4 lrm 15s.

At the same time my team gathered around that entrance and played peekaboo with them. I figured I was about 180 ish meters from my team and about 300 from the enemy.

The suppression had brought time for my team to get into position.

By the end of the round i had done 750 damage with 2 kills and still had half my ammo left.

At the end of the match we had won 12-4 i figured my Lrms had softened the enemy enough so that we didn't loose all of our brawlers.

I may not have been doing much pinpoint damage but i sure as hell striped off a lot of armor.

[El Bandito]

Akulla1980, on 30 May 2015 - 02:10 AM, said:

I played a match a couple of hours ago in my Warhawk B. Terra Therma was the map.

At the start i urged the team to rush the center. I was first in closely followed by the rest.
As my team spread around the ringed walkway, I moved down onto the center platform.

The enemy team proceeded to march up the opposite ramp. Every time one came into my los i locked it up and hammered it with my 4 lrm 15s.

At the same time my team gathered around that entrance and played peekaboo with them. I figured I was about 180 ish meters from my team and about 300 from the enemy.

The suppression had brought time for my team to get into position.

By the end of the round i had done 750 damage with 2 kills and still had half my ammo left.

At the end of the match we had won 12-4 i figured my Lrms had softened the enemy enough so that we didn't loose all of our brawlers.

I may not have been doing much pinpoint damage but i sure as hell striped off a lot of armor.

That's pretty much how I do as well. Sad thing is, my Assault mech (Atlas, no less) tends to arrive in the center faster than our Lights or Mediums. How the hell do people drag their feet that much?

[9thDeathscream]

El Bandito, on 30 May 2015 - 02:24 AM, said:

That's pretty much how I do as well. Sad thing is, my Assault mech (Atlas, no less) tends to arrive in the center faster than our Lights or Mediums. How the hell do people drag their feet that much?

IKR????

[R0B0TULISM]

I tried to pretend lrm's had situational potential as a weapon system. Then I looked at muh stats and was quickly disabused of that notion. All the 1000 dmg 4+ kills with lrm in a match are likely statistical outliers, even though they're fun to brag about. I'm not saying you can't do well with them, just that the return on investment (in terms of 'gitting gud' with those lrm's) is mostly nonexistent.

Really, lrm's are a piss-poor choice against anyone who isn't a Scrubbington McNubcakes.

[Wrathful Scythe]

LRMs are a waste of tonnage if the ECM mechanic is not looked at. Not beeing able to lock on kills the weapon. I mean, it's easy enough to avoid LRM fire without any countermeasures. Having multiple hard counters is to much. There was a time were LRMs could be useful when the enemy team only had 1 ECM mech in form of a raven or an Atlas. Now every team has at least 2-3 ecm mechs and more will follow with wave 3. And that is only ECM. AMS can ruin your day too but is not used because you don't need more than ECM or your own wits to avoid LRM fire.

I can make every weapon work consistently except LRMs (and flamers ). Maybe I'm just bad but hoping for the enemy team to have few ecm mechs and also suck enough to stay out of cover is just not my thing.

[Joseph Mallan]

I'll just leave this right here...

Quote

the Archer is one of the best-known and most widely-used 'Mechs available. A contemporary of 'Mechs such as the Thunderbolt and the Banshee, the Archer's primary role is as a fire support 'Mech, though early in its combat career it was considered an assault 'Mech. More than 100,000 Archers had been produced by the start of the First Succession War, and though many have been destroyed or dismantled for spare parts, they remain a common sight in the Great House armies.

Every company of mine had 2 Archers. They always stayed in the background and assisted destroying everything on teh field.

[Fragnot]

I'm most enjoying Mechs that have a weapon for every range. The gameplay is just fun because I have something I can do no matter the situation; LRMs are an important component of that style. I love my SHD-2D2 with (2) LRM 5 and 270 rounds...

pow pow

It's just fun, and sometimes pretty effective.

[masCh]

Proof that LRMs are viable:
What do you do when you see the INCOMING MISSILE notification?


Do you stand around and giggle as if they were machineguns, infernos, small lasers or flamers?